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	<title>Comments on: Microformats and Firefox 3 (for Users)</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/</link>
	<description>Mozilla, money, microformats and more</description>
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		<title>By: Mikroformatuak: informazio handia &#124; KaXeRo @ Mundua</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-433</link>
		<dc:creator>Mikroformatuak: informazio handia &#124; KaXeRo @ Mundua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Jul 2007 10:52:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-433</guid>
		<description>[...] Operator Firefox-en extentsio bat mikroformatuekin lan egiteko eta gaur egun extentsio moduan erabiltzen dugun arren printzipioz udazken negu aldean kalera aterako duten Firefox-3an integratua egongo da edo beharko luke. Operator berak hainbat ekintza ezberdin ekartzen ditu eta mundu mailan gehien erabiltzen diren zerbitzuetara lotzen gaitu. Baina badu funtzionalitate hauek handiagotzeko aukera bat skript berriak jarriz. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Operator Firefox-en extentsio bat mikroformatuekin lan egiteko eta gaur egun extentsio moduan erabiltzen dugun arren printzipioz udazken negu aldean kalera aterako duten Firefox-3an integratua egongo da edo beharko luke. Operator berak hainbat ekintza ezberdin ekartzen ditu eta mundu mailan gehien erabiltzen diren zerbitzuetara lotzen gaitu. Baina badu funtzionalitate hauek handiagotzeko aukera bat skript berriak jarriz. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 06:00:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-432</guid>
		<description>Sorry, yet another comment from me: If you&#039;re already going through the trouble, why not also support the XML language the microformat is based off of--if the language is already the same, the relevant XPath (if that&#039;s what you&#039;d be using) shouldn&#039;t be all that different...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, yet another comment from me: If you&#8217;re already going through the trouble, why not also support the XML language the microformat is based off of&#8211;if the language is already the same, the relevant XPath (if that&#8217;s what you&#8217;d be using) shouldn&#8217;t be all that different&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-431</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:56:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-431</guid>
		<description>Oh, and though this is not UI-specific, if you can get TEI and DocBook-in-microformat features going, that would be fabulous, as these already have rich semantic content...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and though this is not UI-specific, if you can get TEI and DocBook-in-microformat features going, that would be fabulous, as these already have rich semantic content&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Jun 2007 05:53:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-430</guid>
		<description>Hi,

I haven&#039;t read through the other comments, but I&#039;d just like a simple option to find content contained within the given microformatted div/span (by specifying the type). E.g., if &quot;address&quot; were the class, be able to search for &quot;Oak St&quot; only within divs or spans that had the address class within them. It&#039;d be even cooler if one could search all open documents or specified files (kind of like a simpler version of how I&#039;d love to see XQuery searching become part of standard Firefox as well as accessible from JS/to extension developers).

thx,
Brett</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi,</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t read through the other comments, but I&#8217;d just like a simple option to find content contained within the given microformatted div/span (by specifying the type). E.g., if &#8220;address&#8221; were the class, be able to search for &#8220;Oak St&#8221; only within divs or spans that had the address class within them. It&#8217;d be even cooler if one could search all open documents or specified files (kind of like a simpler version of how I&#8217;d love to see XQuery searching become part of standard Firefox as well as accessible from JS/to extension developers).</p>
<p>thx,<br />
Brett</p>
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		<title>By: nickpeters.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Look at the Practical Applications of Microformats</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>nickpeters.net &#187; Blog Archive &#187; A Look at the Practical Applications of Microformats</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jun 2007 01:01:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-429</guid>
		<description>[...] One of, if not the most popular microformat user-agent is the Firefox extension Operator by Michael Kaply. Currently, Michael is working on adding microformat functionality and javascript functions for microformats to Firefox 3. This means we&#8217;ll be seeing a lot of these features in the next version of Firefox. Operator supports a wide range of microformats, but as previously mentioned we&#8217;re only going to stick to hCard, hCalendar and we&#8217;re going to talk a bit about rel-tag. The premise of operator is simple: if it detects any microformatted data, it allows you to take some sort of action. If you find a person or place marked up with hCard, you can export it as a vCard or add to yahoo contacts. Exporting an hCard as a vCard will allow you to save a contact to programs like Address Book, Outlook or any program that supports the vCard standard. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] One of, if not the most popular microformat user-agent is the Firefox extension Operator by Michael Kaply. Currently, Michael is working on adding microformat functionality and javascript functions for microformats to Firefox 3. This means we&#8217;ll be seeing a lot of these features in the next version of Firefox. Operator supports a wide range of microformats, but as previously mentioned we&#8217;re only going to stick to hCard, hCalendar and we&#8217;re going to talk a bit about rel-tag. The premise of operator is simple: if it detects any microformatted data, it allows you to take some sort of action. If you find a person or place marked up with hCard, you can export it as a vCard or add to yahoo contacts. Exporting an hCard as a vCard will allow you to save a contact to programs like Address Book, Outlook or any program that supports the vCard standard. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: mkaply</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-428</link>
		<dc:creator>mkaply</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 16:39:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-428</guid>
		<description>dartar:

Thanks for the comments. I could certainly look at making the toolbar items disappear instead of disable.

As far as your other comments:

1. I REALLY want drag and drop reordering to be there but I have been unable to do it well in the constraints of Firefox.

2. Editing descriptive names is interesting. I&#039;ll think about that.

3. My goal is for MF definitions and handlers to be installable/upgradeable from the client. As a matter of fact, this will be somewhat available in the next Operator.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dartar:</p>
<p>Thanks for the comments. I could certainly look at making the toolbar items disappear instead of disable.</p>
<p>As far as your other comments:</p>
<p>1. I REALLY want drag and drop reordering to be there but I have been unable to do it well in the constraints of Firefox.</p>
<p>2. Editing descriptive names is interesting. I&#8217;ll think about that.</p>
<p>3. My goal is for MF definitions and handlers to be installable/upgradeable from the client. As a matter of fact, this will be somewhat available in the next Operator.</p>
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		<title>By: dartar</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>dartar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 15:05:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-427</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t see any harm in an empty toolbar (better IMO than a toolbar filled with  unusable items) and I assume there would always be at least an icon for the preferences, right? Otherwise, why not just hide the toolbar when no MF is available (preferences would still be accessible via the menus). I don&#039;t know if this complies with the guidelines for FF toolbars.

If I can give my further 2 cents feedback on the Operator GUI:
- users should be able to customize the order and behaviour of each element, it would be great to have right-click contextual menus and drag &amp; drop functionality for this;
- descriptive names should be editable (much as one can rename toolbar bookmarks).
- it would be really cool if MF definitions and handlers were installable/upgradable directly from the client (like Firefox Add-ons or Greasemonkey scripts), without the need of downloading and importing external files.

End of my wishlist, keep up the good work :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t see any harm in an empty toolbar (better IMO than a toolbar filled with  unusable items) and I assume there would always be at least an icon for the preferences, right? Otherwise, why not just hide the toolbar when no MF is available (preferences would still be accessible via the menus). I don&#8217;t know if this complies with the guidelines for FF toolbars.</p>
<p>If I can give my further 2 cents feedback on the Operator GUI:<br />
- users should be able to customize the order and behaviour of each element, it would be great to have right-click contextual menus and drag &amp; drop functionality for this;<br />
- descriptive names should be editable (much as one can rename toolbar bookmarks).<br />
- it would be really cool if MF definitions and handlers were installable/upgradable directly from the client (like Firefox Add-ons or Greasemonkey scripts), without the need of downloading and importing external files.</p>
<p>End of my wishlist, keep up the good work <img src='http://mike.kaply.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: mkaply</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-426</link>
		<dc:creator>mkaply</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 31 May 2007 14:09:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-426</guid>
		<description>The only problem with the toolbar icons going away is that in many cases you would have a completely empty toolbar.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The only problem with the toolbar icons going away is that in many cases you would have a completely empty toolbar.</p>
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		<title>By: dartar</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-425</link>
		<dc:creator>dartar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 May 2007 22:51:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-425</guid>
		<description>I agree that the GUI issue is crucial and is probably going to determine the success of microformats on mainstream users in the long run. Personally, I like the Operator solution best, but I find extremely annoying that toolbar icons are displayed (although greyed out) even when no microformatted data are available on the page. I think it would make sense to see icons only for available microformats. Suppose I install 300 microformat definitions in Operator: every time I open a page using only 4 kinds of microformatted data, my browser will be cluttered up with 296 useless icons. Maybe this behaviour (inactive icons vs. invisible icons) should be made configurable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that the GUI issue is crucial and is probably going to determine the success of microformats on mainstream users in the long run. Personally, I like the Operator solution best, but I find extremely annoying that toolbar icons are displayed (although greyed out) even when no microformatted data are available on the page. I think it would make sense to see icons only for available microformats. Suppose I install 300 microformat definitions in Operator: every time I open a page using only 4 kinds of microformatted data, my browser will be cluttered up with 296 useless icons. Maybe this behaviour (inactive icons vs. invisible icons) should be made configurable.</p>
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		<title>By: Benjamin Heitmann</title>
		<link>http://mike.kaply.com/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-424</link>
		<dc:creator>Benjamin Heitmann</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 May 2007 14:47:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.kaply.com/weblog/2007/05/04/microformats-and-firefox-3-for-users/#comment-424</guid>
		<description>Hello, thanks for giving this opportunity to brainstorm the firefox 3 microformat capabilities.

After thinking a little bit about Alex Faaborgs mockups, reading the comments here, and musing about my own usage of firefox, I would like to give this feedback:

The most important thing for the microformats UI (for me) is to find a good middleway between the following two extremes:

1.) using firefox as a viewer for all microformats and every detail of them
2.) using firefox only as a middle man to call a different application (or webservice) with the microformat data

Both extremes can be easily demonstrated by todays RSS icon:
some people love to read RSS feeds in their browser, while other people just want the browser to pass the feed URL to their feedreader of choice.

The important thing to consider here, is that microformats might be found, for which more then one type of operation is possible:
If I found an adress, I could want to view it in my mapping application to get a route to it, or I might want to put it into my address book.

Under these considerations, I think the following could work:

a.) put an indicator in the status bar, either a general microformats icon, or one of the three icons suggested by Alex Faaborg.

b.) put an icon next to the place in the document, where the microformat information is contained. If the user browses a document with a lot of mf data, he will be most interested in the data related to the current reading position.

c.) Now, if any of these icons is clicked, then a sidebar is opened, which shows all microformat data detected on the page (like on one of Alex Faaborgs mockups), and highlights the data from the clicked on place, if this was the way the user entered the sidebar.

d.) after the user had a chance to view the human readable version of the data, he can click on it again and be presented with a choice of which programm to use to process the data. this can also work if more then one data item is selected


just my two cents, I am no UI expert, but a long time firefox user and semantic web researcher :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello, thanks for giving this opportunity to brainstorm the firefox 3 microformat capabilities.</p>
<p>After thinking a little bit about Alex Faaborgs mockups, reading the comments here, and musing about my own usage of firefox, I would like to give this feedback:</p>
<p>The most important thing for the microformats UI (for me) is to find a good middleway between the following two extremes:</p>
<p>1.) using firefox as a viewer for all microformats and every detail of them<br />
2.) using firefox only as a middle man to call a different application (or webservice) with the microformat data</p>
<p>Both extremes can be easily demonstrated by todays RSS icon:<br />
some people love to read RSS feeds in their browser, while other people just want the browser to pass the feed URL to their feedreader of choice.</p>
<p>The important thing to consider here, is that microformats might be found, for which more then one type of operation is possible:<br />
If I found an adress, I could want to view it in my mapping application to get a route to it, or I might want to put it into my address book.</p>
<p>Under these considerations, I think the following could work:</p>
<p>a.) put an indicator in the status bar, either a general microformats icon, or one of the three icons suggested by Alex Faaborg.</p>
<p>b.) put an icon next to the place in the document, where the microformat information is contained. If the user browses a document with a lot of mf data, he will be most interested in the data related to the current reading position.</p>
<p>c.) Now, if any of these icons is clicked, then a sidebar is opened, which shows all microformat data detected on the page (like on one of Alex Faaborgs mockups), and highlights the data from the clicked on place, if this was the way the user entered the sidebar.</p>
<p>d.) after the user had a chance to view the human readable version of the data, he can click on it again and be presented with a choice of which programm to use to process the data. this can also work if more then one data item is selected</p>
<p>just my two cents, I am no UI expert, but a long time firefox user and semantic web researcher <img src='http://mike.kaply.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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